Season 7 Rebroadcast: Jim Bodenner on Out of Pocket Costs & & Eating Healthy

Understanding Out-of-Pocket Costs & Eating Healthy

Medicare and Heart Health: Navigating Options and Personal Experiences

In this episode, Mike Roth interviews Jim Bodenner about the intricacies of Medicare, focusing on the advantages and disadvantages of Medicare Advantage plans versus traditional Medicare. Jim shares his personal experience with heart health, including a critical medical emergency and his journey toward adopting a whole food, plant-based diet. The discussion highlights the importance of making informed healthcare decisions, the benefits of plant-based nutrition, and the gaps in the current healthcare system in emphasizing wellness.

00:00 Welcome to Season Seven of Open Forum
00:39 Introducing Jim Bodenner and Medicare Discussion
01:10 Medicare Advantage Plans vs Traditional Medicare
02:43 Personal Experiences with Medicare
05:38 Heart Health and Plant-Based Nutrition
16:48 Alzheimer's Disease and Nutrition
23:13 Conclusion 

Have you heard about mature adults with Donna Hoover and Mike Roth? Yes. This is my second podcast and Donna and I are going to be addressing subjects which are significant for seniors, especially seniors living here in the villages.

The easiest way to hear the show is to look it up on Apple Podcasts. Look for mature adults with Donna and Mike. We'll be looking for you there. 

You can also find us on mature adults with Donna and Mike. All spelled out. Dot buzz sprout.com

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Transcript

Season 7 Rebroadcast: Jim Bodenner on Financial Clarifications & Eating  Healthy

 [00:00:00] Nancy: Welcome to Season seven of Open Forum in the villages of Florida. In this show, we talk to leaders of clubs and interesting folks who live in and around the villages. We also talk to people who have information vital to seniors. You will get perspectives of what is happening in the Villages, Florida area.

[00:00:18] Mike Roth: This is Mike Roth. Thanks for listening. I'm thrilled to share with you this podcast, which is my passion project This podcast brings you knowledge, inspiration, and a lot of things people need to know about The Villages and the people living here. Be sure to hit the follow button to get the newest episode each week.

I'm here with Jim Bodenner. Thanks for joining me, Jim.

[00:00:42] Jim Bodenner: Great to be here.

[00:00:43] Mike Roth: Good. This is the third podcast you recorded with me, Jim.

[00:00:45] Jim Bodenner: It is. I feel like a veteran. 

[00:00:48] Mike Roth: There aren't very many people that have done three or more, probably only two people.

And today we're gonna talk a little bit about Medicare Advantage plans versus traditional Medicare. Some things that have been happening of great interest to people who have those advantage plans because there's new opportunity for them. And we're gonna be talking a little bit about.

Eating healthy. Is that fair?

Good. Let's first talk about traditional Medicare versus Advantage plans. and the Advantage plans have been offered to the American public with all kinds of incentives, from reduced premiums to zero premiums to paying for dental work and all that.

What is your opinion?

[00:01:27] Jim Bodenner: Thanks, Mike, and I'm honored to be here. the 

volunteer president of the Villages Chapter of the national retiree legislative network 

, 

which is a non profit, non partisan organization that advocates for issues that impact retirees. One of the things that I am most adamant about is Medicare and trying to educate people on Medicare options.

There are really two ways, once you turn 65, to acquire Medicare. Everyone gets Medicare Part A and Part B, if that's all you had, there'd be significant gaps in coverage. So people fill those gaps in one of two ways, either through acquiring an Advantage Plan, or Original Medicare and a Medicare Supplement.

As you know from our prior discussions, I'm a huge critic of advantage plans. the reason that I don't like advantage plans is, they are for profit corporations, retained by Medicare to provide your health care. you have to deal with a finite network of doctors.

You've got to stay within that network to maximize your care. One of the three questions that I tell folks to always ask is, regardless of the plan you get, what's the monthly premium?

What are the maximum co pays and deductibles that you could incur in any one year?

And the most important issue in my mind, what are the rules on the use of hospitals and doctors? That can be a serious problem. I'm going to share with you how this became real for me back in August of 2023. limiting yourself to a network of doctor when you need quick specialized care can be a problem.

I feel these questions every day as I counsel people on what path to go down.

[00:02:59] Mike Roth: Can it be fatal 

[00:03:00] Jim Bodenner: It can be a fatal problem. I had a situation recently where someone called me, they were being treated for stage 4 cancer at One of our premier cancer treatment centers here in Florida they were informed that effective the first of the year, their Advantage plan would no longer provide coverage.

That person's really panicked. First of all, they've got cancer they're dealing with. Secondly, they have to sort their way through what Medicare insurance to get. So yes, it can be a serious problem. 

[00:03:28] Mike Roth: Why don't we. share with our listeners what happened to between 1 and 2 million Advantage Plan participants in the last couple of weeks.

[00:03:38] Jim Bodenner: Yeah, it's a serious issue. I published as volunteer president of the Villages Chapter of the national retiree legislative network

, I have folks that help me with press releases.

I published a press release a few weeks ago, and the numbers that I used was that about 1. 1 million people on Advantage plans nationwide were being terminated from those plans effective right now, this week. Dropped. They were in zip codes that the insurance companies didn't like. And they terminated coverage for those Medicare

[00:04:06] Mike Roth: Were any of those zip codes here in Florida?

[00:04:08] Jim Bodenner: Not that we're aware of. Certainly the companies were, there were some big time companies that terminated those folks. The numbers I used in our press release was 1. The New York Times did a follow up story. And they had the number all the way up to 2 million.

We don't really know because you're not getting copies of those letters. But the point is what happens if you get a letter and you're being terminated from your advantage plan? There's good news. if you get proper notification, there can be really good news buried in that letter.

Because if you are terminated from a plan. You have guaranteed rights to get additional coverage. You've got what's called special enrollment rights and the opportunity to acquire either an Advantage Plan or a Medicare supplement. So it would be good news if you got terminated and you run an Advantage Plan, you didn't have the right to switch to Original Medicare and a supplement because of the rules, you might just now have special enrollment rights at a guaranteed issuance rate.

in my opinion, the Medicare G supplement is the best supplement available. 

[00:05:07] Mike Roth: So that's like a rollback to age 65, without any medical qualifications, you could pick the Medicare supplement G, which is the best one, with no penalty.

[00:05:18] Jim Bodenner: Correct. And if people know that the concern is are people being informed that they have those rights we don't really know because we're not getting a copy of those million plus letters, but people do have those guaranteed issuance rights if they exercise them, 

They need to make that election very quickly. 

[00:05:38] Mike Roth: In your own health situation, I understand you had a minor heart problem on an Indian reservation. tell our listeners a little bit about what happened.

[00:05:48] Jim Bodenner: I'm a critic of Advantage Plans. in August of 2023, my wife and I were traveling around the country. We were boondocking off grid in the Cherokee Indian Reservation in North Carolina, in the middle of nowhere, no people, just the two of us enjoying nature, enjoying life.

My iWatch, which I had just recently acquired, woke me up at midnight on August 8th, 2023, and told me to seek immediate medical care. Once I woke up, I realized I had a problem. My heart was racing very fast. I didn't know what AFib was at the time.

I learned very quickly what it was. My wife got me to the emergency room at the Cherokee Indian Reservation. No questions asked I got immediate medical care the emergency room doctor got a hold of my cardiologist down here in The Villages. They talked through what they should or shouldn't do to me.

I got professional prompt care and they removed my heart from AFib with the proper treatment. When I got home I saw my cardiologist, I went through a complete cardiac workup, I ended up with two cardiac stints and a cardiac ablation.

[00:06:51] Mike Roth: No questions 

[00:06:52] Jim Bodenner: I was dealing with some very talented specialists.

I got care I needed. I didn't have one penny of out of pocket costs.

[00:06:59] Mike Roth: Where did you go for care?

[00:07:00] Jim Bodenner: In August of 2023, this process started.

It took some time to do the whole cardiac workup. But late in 2023, I ended up with two cardiac stents and a cardiac ablation.

[00:07:10] Mike Roth: . Was that here in The Villages area?

[00:07:12] Jim Bodenner: It was a professional group of cardiologists and an electrocardiologist that provided my care. No referral was required. I elected who I wanted to go to and got the care. 

[00:07:24] Mike Roth: And what was your total out of pocket?

[00:07:25] Jim Bodenner: I don't the total out of pocket's a real easy number to remember. The total out of pocket was zero, $0 out of pocket. How much were those two procedures and the emergency treatment?

I don't know. it ran into the thousands, tens of thousands of dollars, I'm sure.

. The key thing to though is that I didn't need a referral. I didn't need an advantage plan administrator. Telling me that maybe I don't need that cardiac ablation.

[00:07:50] Mike Roth: Or need the

[00:07:52] Jim Bodenner: Don't need the stents. When it was comical because the cardiologist called me and said we want to do an ablation.

We have to get it pre approved because sometimes the insurance companies won't approve the cardiac ablation. I started to laugh and I said, no, you don't need an approval. It will be approved because your doctor has recommended it. It will pay to a hundred percent.

Of course, I very quickly got a call back and an apology from the billing people that said, yep, you don't need an approval. We've scheduled the appointment. It'll happen on such and such a date. Time is of the essence.

Critical care, particularly cardiac care. If it's critical, you need it, and you need it right now.

you don't need an advantage plan we've all heard the delay and deny care. We've all heard that mantra recently.

[00:08:35] Mike Roth: I have a friend who's got military insurance as a veteran and they've delayed his back surgery for months now, and he has no idea when the treatment can begin.

[00:08:46] Jim Bodenner: It's critical care when you're sick, when you're ill, when you need emergency care. You need it right now. Fortunately, we have some of the best care available in the United States here in Florida. From places like Shands and Mayo Clinic and Moffitt.

The question is, can you get there?

[00:09:01] Mike Roth: Can you 

[00:09:02] Jim Bodenner: There with the advantage plan you have? 

[00:09:03] Mike Roth: after your care, you decided to go on a heart healthy diet.

[00:09:09] Jim Bodenner: This is where the story gets interesting. one of my mantras is you have to manage your own health care.

Because nobody else will. I wrote my cardiologist and my

electrocardiologist a

letter. After I had gotten through the procedures. I was feeling good. I'd recovered from everything. I wrote him a letter. The first paragraph of the letter was a heartfelt thank you for keeping me from having a stroke, keeping me from having a heart attack.

It was a heartfelt, sincere, thank you for the professional care. 

[00:09:35] Mike Roth: But, 

[00:09:36] Jim Bodenner: But paragraph two. of the letter started with the word but that's not enough because I want advice and counsel on health, nutrition, fitness, and lifestyle because I'm not going to die from a heart attack.

And my cardiologist looked at me and he said, Jim, I fixed you. He said, look at you. You're in better physical shape than virtually all of my patients. Just keep doing what you're doing. To which I said, Doc, that's not the right answer. 

[00:10:08] Mike Roth: where did you go next?

[00:10:09] Jim Bodenner: The interesting response from my electrocardiologist was, a woman I have the deepest respect for her response was, Jim, I just don't have the time to be able to counsel people on wellness. I was frustrated. I was concerned. I was scared. I wasn't going to die from a heart attack.

I'm a fairly knowledgeable guy. I'm golfing with some friends Susan and Wallace, and explaining to her what happened to me, she did everything but hit me over the head with a golf club and said, you're coming with me on Thursday to the village's whole food plant based club.

I want to introduce you to a program of nutrition. I got engaged in that program. I started to learn. I started to read. I started to educate myself on what nutrition and fitness was all about. One of the things that just absolutely astounded me, YouTube becomes your friend when you're trying to educate yourself on technical 

[00:11:01] Mike Roth: Sure 

[00:11:02] Jim Bodenner: It's amazing. I came across a guy named Dean Ornish.

[00:11:06] Mike Roth: could you spell that name for our listeners?

[00:11:08] Jim Bodenner: Dean Ornish O-R-N-I-S-H.

He spent 14 years getting a cardiac lifestyle and fitness program approved by Medicare.

The program cost 11, 250 to take. I contacted Ornish's website and said, I've just had two cardiac stents. I have a Medicare Supplement G plan. And would like to enroll in the program. it's eight hours a week for nine weeks, 72 hour program I got approved instantly for the program because I had a Medicare supplement. My supplement paid 100 percent of the cost.

[00:11:42] Mike Roth: that a 

[00:11:42] Jim Bodenner: It's nine weeks. It's all done by live professionals. they're all over the world teaching this course.

my Medicare supplement paid 100 percent of the cost. I started questioning their intake people on how would a Medicare Advantage plan treat this program, and they said it's a nightmare. they require pre approval some will pay, some won't my Medicare G plan, no questions asked didn't need a referral I had the proper diagnosis two cardiac stents, and it paid 100 percent of the cost. 

[00:12:11] Mike Roth: Did your wife go through the cost 

[00:12:12] Jim Bodenner: she went through some of the materials and she's been most helpful.

We've done this plant based journey as a team. I was upset with myself, first of all, that I didn't know about this program, but I was also upset with. The medical profession that I wasn't told about it. I wrote him a letter. there was no discussion that this program existed.

None. Absolutely

none. 

[00:12:33] Mike Roth: Was he aware of it?

[00:12:34] Jim Bodenner: He was not aware of it. 

[00:12:36] Mike Roth: How did you stumble onto it?

[00:12:37] Jim Bodenner: I found it on YouTube. I went back a few weeks later after I went through the program, I went back to the cardiologist. I told him I wanted to talk to him. He very graciously spent a half hour with me and his PA.

I went in with a copy of the book that was written about the program, the Hornish book. I went in with copies of randomized control trials that had been done to support the program. He listened to me. He thanked me. He was very sincere. But he didn't know about it.

that just makes me scratch my head in disbelief.

How

A system can exist where we don't talk about wellness. God bless my doctors that saved my life and kept me from having a heart attack.

[00:13:17] Mike Roth: Medicine 1.

[00:13:18] Jim Bodenner: but when you've got a patient who's motivated, who's asking questions, who's writing you a letter asking for help, and you don't provide any kind of feedback to that patient one of the key players in this whole plant based world, a guy named Dr.

Esselstyn, he's a medical doctor, he's former head of cardiologist at that small little heart place in Cleveland. 

[00:13:42] Mike Roth: Cleveland Clinic,

[00:13:43] Jim Bodenner: one of the world's foremost 

[00:13:45] Mike Roth: The reputation is stellar.

[00:13:46] Jim Bodenner: Is stellar. It's unbelievable. But Dr. Esselstyn, I read a quote recently from Dr.

Esselstyn, former head of cardiology at Cleveland Clinic and internationally known expert on health and nutrition and an advocate for plant based nutrition. But his quote was that it's unconscionable not to offer patients , a plant based approach as an option for long term care of cardiac disease.

You think about cardiac disease,

it's going to kill over 600, 000 people this year. it's the leading cause of death in the United States. 

[00:14:19] Mike Roth: It's 

[00:14:20] Jim Bodenner: 600, 000 people. can all those lives be saved by plant based nutrition? Certainly not. But the research done by Dr.

Esselstyn, Dr. Ornish, and other leading professionals, the randomized controlled trials are clear that nutrition and exercise make a difference. The Ornish program was interesting because it's not just about plant based nutrition. A good part of it is plant based nutrition.

How to educate yourself, how to prepare the meals, but it also focuses very heavily on exercise, on relaxation, on stress management, those are all key things , to slow down or reverse cardiac disease. Plus a lot of other illnesses, but I'm focused like a laser in cardiac disease.

[00:15:06] Mike Roth: Now when you talk about plant-based nutrition I'm aware that plant-based nutrition can't provide all of the vitamins and minerals that the body requires.

Are you taking additional supplements now?

[00:15:18] Jim Bodenner: I do take some supplements. I was referred to a cardiologist from Michigan. It doesn't replace my local cardiologist.

I have a wonderful cardiologist here in The Villages. But I am seeing a cardiologist in Michigan that Advises me on nutrition cardiac disease, and yeah, there are a couple supplements that I take every day. One of the things that I always scratch my head is education is so important.

Not only to educate our doctors, as we've just said, that's really important that we start educating our medical professionals, but we have to educate people like you and me on these issues. 

[00:15:52] Mike Roth: favorite 

[00:15:53] Jim Bodenner: listeners. One of my favorite questions is You meet somebody in the street and you tell them you're on a whole food plant based diet and of course the first question is well, where do you get your protein?

I got the answer down pat.

[00:16:03] Mike Roth: What is the

[00:16:04] Jim Bodenner: I've got it down pat these same people really don't seem to be concerned about those 600, 000 people dying from cardiac disease or obesity that's out of control or The ultra processed food revolution or saturated fat problems But they focus on protein. I don't think anybody's died from a protein deficiency this year. Maybe they have. But not 600, 000 people. my short answer is I get my protein the same place that cows do. from plants people will do a double take when they hear that short answer, but nutrition is important.

I take some supplements to balance my diet. I track my cardiac health very carefully and I'm working with a plant based specialist in Michigan to help me.

[00:16:48] Mike Roth: Let's listen to Dr. Craig Curtis. 

[00:16:51] Speaker: This is Mike Roth and Dr. Craig Curtis. We're talking about Alzheimer's disease. Let's talk about the omega 3 and omega 6. How should people get that from their diet?

[00:17:02] Dr. Craig Curtis: Primarily, you should get that through beans and nuts and legumes and fish. You can take a supplement of omega 3, omega 6s. However, don't overdue the supplementation of omega 3 specifically. There was a large study published by the American College of Cardiology a few years back that seemed to show that people that took too much omega 3 might have an increased risk of a heart arrhythmia. So my recommendation is if you buy omega 3 supplements, take it as written.

[00:17:35] Warren: With over 20 years of experience studying brain health, Dr. Curtis's goal is to educate The Villages community on how to live a longer, healthier life. Visit his website, CraigCurtisMD. com or call 352 500 5252 to attend a free seminar.

[00:17:50] Mike Roth: Thank you, Dr. Curtis. Dr. Curtis talks about the MIND diet, which is a modified version of the Mediterranean diet which eliminates almost all red meat in favor of chicken, and Other foods. Have you ever heard of it?

[00:18:05] Jim Bodenner: Yeah, let me comment, on Alzheimer's disease. It's a topic that is very close to my heart, my wife and I owned a long term care business for 25 years. we did have a locked Alzheimer's unit.

As I was going through the Dean Ornish Cardiac Lifestyle Program, I was made aware of a randomized control trial. Ornish has been working on, for five years now, a randomized control trial to, they know that plant based nutrition can, reduce the plaque in the heart and in lots of other body parts that are pretty important, but particularly the heart.

The hypothesis was that same thing that's going on in the heart is also going on in the brain and that there would be a link between nutrition and Alzheimer's disease. It was a five year randomized control trial. It was published in a peer reviewed journal article About three months ago,

[00:18:59] Mike Roth: What were the results?

[00:19:00] Jim Bodenner: There was a significant correlation between plant based nutrition and Alzheimer's disease.

in layman's terms the plant based nutrition can slow or reduce Alzheimer's disease.

[00:19:11] Mike Roth: Did it reduce amyloid in the brain?

[00:19:12] Jim Bodenner: it did. I'm not the technical guy. There was an interesting show. I can provide you with a link. Anderson Cooper and Sanjay Gupta.

did a half hour special on CNN, they interviewed Dean Ornish and took that randomized control trial and put it in English. I have a hard time reading randomized control trials.

[00:19:30] Mike Roth: Nice to know they're there. I don't like reading them.

[00:19:32] Jim Bodenner: don't like reading them.

[00:19:33] Mike Roth: I like reading the results.

[00:19:34] Jim Bodenner: But Anderson Cooper and Sanjay Gupta did a nice job of explaining the link between Alzheimer's disease and plant based nutrition, and it's 

[00:19:42] Mike Roth: I'd love to put that into the show notes.

[00:19:45] Jim Bodenner: It's interesting, the fear factor there was a survey that was done on what do you fear the most in terms of diseases?

Cardiac disease, of course, is way up here, 600 plus thousand people die a year. Not nearly that many people die from Alzheimer's. People do die from Alzheimer's but the fear factor, Alzheimer's was number one. Number one, people feared it. more than any of the other diseases. And I guess if you think about it,

[00:20:10] Mike Roth: My friend Larry probably died from a stroke or a heart attack last week. Up to the moment he died. He seemed healthy.

[00:20:16] Jim Bodenner: I'll provide you a link to the Anderson Cooper interview, but I can also give you a link to the study, too.

[00:20:21] Mike Roth: Maybe you can tell our listeners what you think is wrong with the current medical system.

[00:20:26] Jim Bodenner: The current medical system isn't a healthcare system. The system we have is an illness system. The system focuses on taking care of you and providing those interventions to save your life.

My cardiologist was focused on cardiac ablation and two stints, which saved my life. there's no denying. And I'm eternally grateful for their professionalism. But they didn't focus on wellness. They didn't tell me on what I could do You know the answer is Jim, I fixed you isn't the answer because I don't want to put an appointment on my calendar for three years or five years or 10 years out to have another cardiac stint or to have open heart 

[00:21:07] Mike Roth: Many people do.

[00:21:08] Jim Bodenner: And that's the path that I was on until I made a radical change in my lifestyle. I fortunately had two golfing friends who hit me over the head with a golf club and got me motivated. They've mentored me. They've encouraged me they've shown me the connections they have in the community

[00:21:26] Mike Roth: You look like you've lost weight.

[00:21:28] Jim Bodenner: I have lost 20 pounds but not intentionally. Weight is a side effect of a plant based diet.

You will lose weight. Yes, I've lost weight. My lipid numbers are embarrassingly low. It's embarrassing to tell people What your LDL is, because they don't believe it.

Overall health effect has been great for me. Does it work for everyone? No, not everyone is going to go on a no oil, no dairy, no meat diet, but if you're motivated, if your life depends on it and you see a link you just might get motivated to do it.

That

I always is, people talk about adding years to their life.

That's true.

I'd like to add years to my life, but I also want to add life to my years. I want to be healthy until my last breath. I have experience, my wife and I have experience running an assisted living, owning an assisted living community in a skilled nursing home.

We know. What long term chronic care 

[00:22:22] Mike Roth: A decline.

[00:22:22] Jim Bodenner: a gradual decline.

[00:22:24] Mike Roth: And the question is, do you want to have a long plateau and then a sharp cliff where you fall off and die? And I think what you're talking about is exactly what Peter Attia, MD talks about in his book, Outlive which I do recommend to our listeners.

Jim, could you tell our listeners, when the plant based food club meets here in The Villages. 

[00:22:44] Jim Bodenner: It meets on the 2nd Thursday here of the month at Riverbend Rec. Center.

 It's a great group, we've learned a lot Hang around people that are smarter than you and be willing to learn.

educate yourself, surround yourself with smart people, join the plant based club here in The Villages and don't stick your head in the sand.

[00:23:02] Mike Roth: Eat healthy.

[00:23:03] Jim Bodenner: Eat healthy, take an action, change, embrace it, 

[00:23:07] Mike Roth: Change is difficult for some people.

[00:23:08] Jim Bodenner: Is difficult, embrace it.

and enjoy life is really my attitude.

[00:23:13] Mike Roth: Thanks for joining us today, Jim.

[00:23:14] Jim Bodenner: Thanks, Mike.

[00:23:15] Dolores: Remember, our next episode will be released next Friday at 9 a. m. Should you want to become a major supporter of the show or have questions, please contact us at mike at rothvoice dot com. This is a shout out for supporters Ed Williams, Duane Roemmich, and Dr. Craig Curtis at K2 in The Villages.

We will be hearing more from Dr. Curtis with short Alzheimer's tips each week. If you know someone who should be on the show, contact us at mike at rothvoice dot com. The way our show grows is with your help. Text your friends about this show if you enjoyed listening or just tell your friends about the show.

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